Interviews

Hello! As with my previous books, I am posting here the audio of the quotes used in the book, so you can listen along as you read it…

In a small number of cases, you’ll notice that the words they said are slightly different to the words in the book. That’s because after I interviewed the scientists here, I emailed them the text of their words, and they very occasionally asked to amend their words to make what they said more precise or accurate.

The US and British editions of the book have different page numbers, so in the descriptions below, the first page number you see is the US version and the second is the UK version.

 


INTRODUCTION:

THE HOLY GRAIL


Page xi /Page 3

Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College, London, on the new weight loss drugs:

Page xi/Page 3

Dr Clemence Blouet, an obesity researcher at Cambridge University, discusses these drugs:

Page xii /Page 3

Graham MacGregor, Professor of Cardiovascular Medicine at Queen Mary University in London, discusses the drugs:

Page xii/Page 4

Jerold Mande – an adjunct Professor of Nutrition at Harvard best known for designing the nutritional label displayed on all food in the United States – discusses the deaths caused by obesity and poor diet:

 


CHAPTER ONE:

FINDING THE TREASURE CHEST


Page 4/Page 26

Daniel Drucker, professor of medicine at the Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute, Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, discusses his role in the discovery of GLP-1:

Page 5/Page 27

Dr Drucker describes his “a-ha moment”:

Page 5/Page 27

Dr Drucker discusses its role in creating insulin:

Page 8/Page 27

Dr Drucker discusses the role the lizard known as the Gila monster played in further breakthroughs:

Page 7/Page 29

John Wilding, who is a Professor at the University of Liverpool leading research into Obesity, Diabetes and Endocrinology, discusses his role in the breakthroughs that led to the new obesity drugs:

Page 9/Page 31

Daniel Drucker discusses more:

Page 9/Page 32

John Wilding discusses more:

Page 10/Page 32

Robert Kushner, Professor of Medicine at Northwestern University, discusses his role in one of the key clinical trials:

Page 10/Page 33

He discusses further:

Page 12/Page 34

Daniel Drucker discusses how people talk to him about these drugs now:

Page 12/Page 35

Robert Kushner discusses further:

Page 12/Page 35

Daniel discusses the transition from injections to pills:

Page 13/Page 35

Carel Le Roux discusses the speed of the new research:

Page 16/Page 39

Sunny Naughton discusses her experiences taking one of these drugs:

Page 17/Page 39

She discusses further:

Page 17/Page 39

And further:

Page 17/Page 40

And further:

Page 18/Page 40

Carel Le Roux explains some of the side effects:

 


CHAPTER TWO:

CHEESECAKE PARK


Page 32/Page 55

Paul Kenny, head of Neuroscience at Mount Sinai in New York, discusses moving to the US:

Page 32/Page 55

He discusses the experiment I nickname “Cheesecake Park”

Page 32/Page 56

And further:

Page 33/Page 57

And further:

Page 33/Page 57

And more:

Page 34/Page 57

And more:

Page 34/Page 58

And more:

Page 36/Page 60

And more:


CHAPTER THREE:

THE DEATH AND REBIRTH OF SATIETY


Page 38/Page 61

Jerold Mande discusses the effects of processed and ultra-processed food:

Page 38/Page 62

Paul Kenny discusses this too:

Page 39/Page 63

Tim Spector discusses chewing:

Page 40/Page 64

Dr Giles Yeo, an obesity researcher at Cambridge University, discusses processed food:

Page 41/Page 65

Tim Spector discusses energy spikes and crashes:

Page 44/Page 68

Tim Spector discusses the effects of artificial sweeteners:

Page 44/Page 68

He discusses further:

Page 44/Page 68

Jerold Mande discusses how processed food affects us further:

Page 45/Page 69

Tim Spector discusses the effect of our current diets on gut health:

Page 48/Page 73

Carel Le Roux discusses the effect of the new weight loss drugs on satiety:

Page 48/Page 73

Daniel Drucker discusses the same topic:

Page 49/Page 73

Michael Lowe, Professor of Clinical Psychology at Drexel University, discusses the new weight loss drugs:

Page 49/Page 74

And further:

Page 49/Page 74

And further:

Page 49/Page 74

And further:

Page 50/Page 74

And he discusses his doubts more:

Page 50/Page 74

And further:

Page 50/Page 75

And further:

Page 50/Page 75

And further:

Page 54/Page 78

Jeff Parker discusses his experiences taking the new weight loss drugs:

Page 54/Page 79

And more:

Page 54/Page 79

And more:

Page 55/Page 79

And more:

Page 55/Page 80

And more:

Page 55/Page 80

Daniel Drucker discusses the environmental factors causing obesity:

Page 55/Page 80

Dr Shauna Levy, an obesity specialist at Tulane University School of Medicine, responds to my concerns about the environmental causes of obesity:

Page 58/Page 82

John Wilding discusses the drugs:

 


CHAPTER FOUR:

LIVING IN AN INFLAMED STATE


Page 60/Page 85

Max Permberton, a leading British doctor, discusses the effects of obesity:

Page 61/Page 86

Graham MacGregor discusses the effects of obesity:

Page 62/Page 87

Max Pemberton discusses diabetes:

Page 63/Page 88

Max Pemberton discusses the effects of obesity on hips and knees:

Page 63/Page 89

Max Pemberton discusses the effects of obesity on heart health:

Page 64/Page 89

Graham MacGregor discusses strokes:

Page 64/Page 90

Max Pemberton discusses the relationship between obesity and cancer:

Page 65/Page 90

Giles Yeo discusses the relationship between obesity and inflammation:

 


CHAPTER FIVE:

AN OLD STORY REPEATING ITSELF?


Page 72/Page 98

Robert Kushner discusses tolerance:

Page 73/Page 99

Dr Shauna Levy discusses the older weight loss drugs:

Page 78/Page 104

Daniel Drucker discusses the safety of the new weight loss drugs:

Page 79/Page 105

Max Pemberton discusses potential concerns:

Page 80/Page 107

Jean Luc-Faillie, professor of medical pharmacology at the University Hospital of Montpellier and also the head of the National Pharmacovigilance Survey into these drugs for the French Medicine Agency, discusses his concerns about the potential effect on thyroid cancer:

Page 81/Page 107

And further:

Page 82/Page 108

Michelle Stesiak, a woman in her fifties in Myrtle Beach in South Carolina, describes how Ozempic gave her pancreatitis:

Page 82/Page 109

She describes more about her experience:

Page 82/Page 109

And more:

Page 83/Page 109

And more:

Page 84/Page 111

Heath Schmidt, the head of the Lab of Neuropsychopharmacology at Penn State University, discusses muscle mass loss:

Page 87/Page 113

Zami Jalil, a British musician with diabetes, describes his experience of not being able to get Ozempic:

Page 87/Page 114

And further:

Page 87/Page 114

And further:

Page 87/Page 114

And more:

Page 88/Page 115

Jeff Parker discusses getting compounded versions of the drug from China:

Page 89/Page 115

Robert Kushner discusses the risks of compounded or off-brand versions of the drugs:

Page 89/Page 115

Shauna Levy discusses the risks of this too:

Page 90/Page 116

Gregg Stanwood, a developmental neuropharmacologist and neuroscientist at the College of Medicine at Florida State University, discusses a potential risk:

Page 90/Page 116

And more:

Page 92/Page 118

Shauna Levy discusses long term risks:

 


CHAPTER SIX:

WHY DON’T YOU DIET AND EXERCISE INSTEAD?


Page 99/Page 125

Traci Mann, Professor of Psychology at the University of Minnesota, discusses dieting:

Page 99/Page 125

And more:

Page 100/Page

126 Michael Lowe discusses set point theory:

Page 101/Page 128

Traci Mann explains more:

Page 102/Page 128

Michael Lowe explains more:

Page 103/Page 129

And more:

Page 103/Page 129

Jerold Mande explains the same phenomenon:

Page 103/Page 130

Giles Yeo explains further reasons why diet often fails:

Page 104/Page 130

Michael Lowe describes “obesogenic” environments:

Page 104/Page 130

And more:

Page 105/Page 131

Traci Mann discusses diets further:

Page 105/Page 131

And more:

Page 105/Page 131

And more:

Page 105/Page 132

And more:

Page 106/Page 133

Thorolfur Thorlindsson, who pioneered the Youth in Iceland program, discusses his childhood:

Page 107/Page 133

And more:

Page 107/Page 134

And more:

Page 108/Page 134

Inga Dora Sigfusdottir, who also worked on the Youth in Iceland program, explains:

Page 109/Page 135

Gudberg Jonsson, who runs one of the Youth in Iceland programs, shows me around:

Page 109/Page 135

And more:

Page 109/Page 135

And more:

Page 110/Page 137

Tim Spector discusses the benefits and limitations of exercise:

 


CHAPTER SEVEN:

THE BRAIN BREAKTHROUGH


Page 115/Page 142

Robert Kushner discusses the effects of the new weight loss drugs on the brain:

Page 115/Page 142

Clemence Blouet discusses this too:

Page 116/Page 143

And more:

Page 116/Page 143

And more:

Page 117/Page 143

Paul Kenny discusses the reward centres of the brain:

Page 117/Page 144

Diana Williams, Professor of Neuroscience at Florida State University, discusses GLP1 receptors in the brain:

Page 118/Page 145

Heath Schmidt, neuropharmacologist and director of the Laboratory of Neuropsychopharmacology  at Pennsylvania University, discusses the effects of these drugs on the brain:

Page 118/Page 145

And more:

Page 118/Page 145

And more:

Page 118/Page 145

And more:

Page 119/Page 146

Elisabet Jerlhag, Professor of Pharmacology at the University of Gotherberg, explains the effects of GLP1 agonist drugs on the alcohol consumption of rats:

Page 119/Page 146

And more:

Page 120/Page 147

And more:

Page 120/Page 148

And more:

Page 121/Page 148

And more:

Page 121/Page 148

And more:

Page 121/Page 148

Heath Schmidt discusses this:

Page 121/Page 149

Patricia Grigson, the Chair of the Department of Neural and Behavioural Sciences at Pennsylvania State University, discusses the effect of these drugs on heroin and fentanyl use in rats:

Page 122/Page 149

Gregg Stanwood discusses their effect on cocaine use in mice:

Page 122/Page 149

Christian Hendershot, an associate professor of clinical psychology at University of North Carolina, discusses these topics:

Page 123/Page 150

And more:

Page 123/Page 151

Max Pemberton discusses their potential effect on the use of alcohol in people:

Page 124/Page 151

Elisabet Jerlhag discusses further:

Page 124/Page 151

Patricia Grigson discusses whether these drugs might work to reduce addiction in humans:

Page 124/Page 151

Gregg Stanwood discusses more:

Page 125/Page 153

Wayne Hall, an emeritus professor of public health policy at the University of Queensland in Australia, discusses the effects if super-charging dopamine in the brain:

Page 126/Page 153

Gregg Stanwood discusses potential concerns:

Page 126/Page 154

Patricia Grigson shares her concerns:

Page 126/Page 154

And more:

Page 126/Page 154

And more:

Page 127/Page 155

Max Pemberton shares his worries:

Page 127/Page 155

Christian Hendershot shares his concerns:

Page 130/Page 157

Elisbeth Jerlhag responds to some of these concerns:

Page 130/Page 158

Heath Schmidt discusses further:

Page 130/Page 158

Elisabet Jerlhag responds to my questions about potential reward system risks:

Page 130/Page 158

Elisabet Jerlhag discusses selectivity in the brain:

Page 131/Page 159

Aurelio Galli, the Director for Gatsrointestinal Biology Research at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, discusses one theory about how these drugs affect the brain:

Page 131/Page 159

And more:

Page 132/Page 160

Paul Kenny discusses a different way of thinking about it:

Page 132/Page 159

Clemence Blouet discusses another way of thinking about it still:

Page 133/Page 161

And more:

Page 133/Page 161

Gregg Stanwood discusses one possible concern:

 


CHAPTER EIGHT:

WHAT JOB WAS OVEREATING DOING FOR YOU?


Page 137/Page 165 Jerold Mande discusses the loss of pleasure many people experience on these drugs:

Page 137/Page 165 And more:

Page 146/Page 175 Ian Paul, University Professor and Vice Chair for Faculty Affairs at the  Department of Pediatrics at Penn State University, discusses an experiment into responsive parenting:

Page 149/Page 177 Vincent Felitti, Clinical Professor of Medicine at the University of California, discusses his ground-breaking research into childhood trauma:

Page 149/Page 177 And more:

Page 149/Page 177 And more:

Page 149/Page 178 And more:

Page 151/Page 179 Robin Moore is a worker in the not-for-profit sector in Canada who developed an addiction to alcohol after bariatric surgery. She discusses her experience:

Page 151/Page 180 And more:

Page 151/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 180 And more:

Page 151/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 180 And more:

Page 152/Page 181 Carel Le Roux discusses the increase in the suicide rate after bariatric surgery:

Page 153/Page 181 He discusses why:

Page 153/Page 181 The nutritionist and eating disorders expert Jessica Setnick discusses why some people feel psychologically worse after surgery:

Page 153/Page 181 And more:

Page 153/Page 182 Carel Le Roux discusses more:

 


CHAPTER NINE:

I DON’T THINK YOU’RE IN YOUR BODY


Page 159/Page 188

Michelle Landsberg took Ozempic for diabetes, lost lots of weight, and then saw it come back. She discusses her experience:

Page 160/Page 189

Shauna Levy discusses whether these drugs create tolerance:

Page 161/Page 189

Gregg Stanwood discusses the same topic:

Page 161/Page 190

And so does Robert Kushner:

Page 161/Page 190

And so does Jerold Mande:

Page 162/Page 191

And so does Carel Le Roux:

Page 163/Page 192

Robert Kushner discusses whether these drugs should be combined with wider lifestyle changes:

Page 166/Page 195

V, formerly known as Eve Ensler, discusses learning to really be in your own body:

Page 166/Page 195

She discusses how trauma can disconnect us from our bodies:

Page 167/Page 196

She discusses how she reconnected with her body:

Page 167/Page 196

She discusses the role of dance is reconnecting us with our bodies:

Page 168/Page 197

Viren Swami, a Professor of Social Psychology at Anglia Ruskin University, discusses body image and how to heal it:

Page 168/Page 198

And more:

Page 169/Page 198

And more:

Page 170/Page Page 199

And more:

Page 170/Page 199

And more:

Page 170/Page 200

And more:

 


CHAPTER TEN:

SELF-ACCEPTANCE vs. SELF-STARVATION?


Page 174/Page 204 Elise Loehnen, an American writer, describes how these drugs can harm women:

Page 175/Page 205

And more:

Page 175/Page 205

And more:

Page 175/Page 205

And more:

Page 175/Page 206

And more:

Page 176/Page 206

And more:

Page 176/Page 207

And more:

Page 179/Page 209

Kimberly Dennis, a medical doctor and expert on eating disorders, explains her concerns about these new drugs:

Page 179/Page 210

And more:

Page 180/Page 210

And more:

Page 180/Page 210

And more:

 


CHAPTER ELEVEN:

THE FORBIDDEN BODY


Page 187/Page 218

Shelley Bovey, a leading advocate of body positivity in Britain, describes her experiences:

Page 187/Page 210

And more:

Page 188/Page 219

And more:

Page 188/Page 219

And more:

Page 188/Page 219

And more:

Page 188/Page 219

And more:

Page 189/Page 219

And more:

Page 189/Page 220

And more:

Page 189/Page 220

And more:

Page 189/Page 220

And more:

Page 190/Page 220

And more:

Page 190/Page 221

She describes medical stigma:

Page 190/Page 221

She describes the devastating effects of stigma on how she felt about herself:

Page 190/Page 221

She explains more:

Page 192/Page 223

And more:

Page 193/Page 224

And more:

Page 196/Page 227

And more:

Page 198/Page 229

Walter Willett is professor of epidemiology and nutrition at Harvard School of Public Health and Harvard Medical School. He explains the medical risks of obesity:

Page 198/Page 229

Igor Sapozhnikov is a doctor in Panorama City, a working class neighbourhood in Los Angeles. He discusses his patients:

Page 200/Page 231

Walter Willett explains more:

Page 202/Page 233

And more:

Page 203/Page 235

And more:

Page 204/Page 236

Shelley explains her conclusions:

Page 205/Page 237

And more:

Page 206/Page 237

And more:

Page 207/Page 239

And more:

Page 207/Page 239

And more:

 


CHAPTER TWELVE:

THE LAND THAT DOESN’T NEED OZEMPIC


Page 215/Page 247

Masaru Watanabe is a leading Japanese chef. He explains Japanese cuisine:

Page 215/Page 247

And more:

Page 215/Page 247

And more:

Page 216/Page 248

And more:

Page 216/Page 248

And more:

Page 216/Page 248

And more:

Page 216/Page 248

And more:

Page 217/Page 249

And more:

Page 217/Page 249

And more:

Page 217/Page 249

And more:

Page 217/Page 249

One of his chefs explained further:

Page 218/Page 249

Masaru explains more:

Page 218/Page 250

And more:

Page 219/Page 251

And more:

Page 219/Page 251

And more:

Page 222/Page 254

Harumi Tatebe is a school nutritionist in Japan. She explains her work:

Page 222/Page 255

And more:

Page 223/Page 256

And more:

Page 223/Page 256

The Japanese school principal, Mr. Tanaka, discusses school meals:

Page 223/Page 256

Harumi continues:

Page 224/Page 257

And more:

Page 224/Page 257

And more:

Page 228/Page 261

Junya Nagasawa is a Japanese boss who explains Japan’s “metabo law” and how it plays out at his workplace:

Page 229/Page 262

And more:

Page 229/Page 262

One of his employees, Yusuke Nagira, discusses the program:

Page 230/Page 263

And more:

Page 231/Page 264

Yukio Morimoto, an 81-year old football player, discusses sports in old age:

Page 233/Page 265

Matsu Fukuchi, a 102-year old woman who lives in Ogimi, the oldest village in the world, discusses her life:

Page 234/Page 267

Osamu Iimura, a chef in Tokyo, discusses preparing fugu, a poisonous fish:

Page 236/Page 269

Masaru Watanabe discusses if Westerners can become like the Japanese:

Page 237/Page 270

Sarah Kempainen, a doctor who prescribes healthy food for her patients, discusses this work:

 


CONCLUSION:

THE CHOICES NOW


Page 242/Page 275

Deborah Tyler is a nurse who gave her young daughter Ozempic. She discusses:

Page 243/Page 276

And more:

Page 243/Page 276

And more:

Page 243/Page 276

And more:

Page 244/Page 277

And more:

Page 244/Page 277

And more:

Page 245/Page 278

Giles Yeo on childhood obesity:


NOTES:


Notes Page 6 (UK)

Carel Le Roux is a Professor of Experimental Pathology at University College Dublin, He discusses how the new weight loss drugs work and how they were developed:

Notes Page 6 (UK)

He discusses further:

Notes Page 7 (UK)

And more:

Notes Page 7 (UK)

And more: